The Package

Saw the package on your theft tonight on news 14. I had seen the billboards last week also. Our home was broken in to last summer and we lost a lot of things like mini dv tapes with our daughter on it and a digital camera with pictures yet to be backed up. I know how you guys feel. It’s a sinking feeling, but after a few days I felt bad for who ever did it and I prayed that they would some how come to know Christ. I’m sure you have prayed for these individuals that wronged you, but I would like to say that your billboards and the package on 14 make you seem a bit vengeful rather than forgiving.

But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. If you are sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too.

Matthew 5: 39-40 NLT

balls·y Audio Help /?b?lzi/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[bawl-zee] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective, balls·i·er, balls·i·est. Slang: Usually Vulgar. boldly aggressive or courageous: a ballsy gal who isn’t afraid of anyone.

The part that bothers me is the “usually vulgar” part. Putting God’s name on a billboard and the word “ballsy” in my opinion is vulgar and bordering on taking the Lords name in vain.

It certainly gets your attention but isn’t appropriate. I sincerely ask you to consider taking that sign down. I understand that today’s culture has redefined terms and things that seemed vulgar 20 years ago are now common everyday language. My question is…does that make it OK? I’d like to know what you think.

BTW…I think you have an awesome church otherwise and I’m considering visiting someday.

God Bless,
Joey

once again, i think it rocks… keep it going…

i am praying that you guys get in contact with the theif.. because that is the goal…

Basis for my previous comment:

Col 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

Col 3:2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.

Col 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Col 3:4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

Col 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

Col 3:6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.

Col 3:7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived.

Col 3:8 But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

Col 3:9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices

Col 3:10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Col 3:11 Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Col 3:12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

Col 3:13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

Col 3:14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

I admire you for what you are doing…offering forgiveness and love to this/these individual/s and being willing to take a big risk to do it. You have the love and forgiveness part of this passage down…I’m just suggesting a little caution at how you use God’s name.

Blessings,
Joey

I am glad to hear your method for attempting to contact these people. First and foremost, they need to see and feel the love of God. The billboards…..nice touch. I have no problem with the wording. The problem with churches today is that they preach that everything is Sunny and Rosey. Jesus himself was not afraid to get into peoples faces. He, himself “desecrated the temple”, this was done for the greater good. Four years ago, I had my window smashed on my car and items stolen while it was parked in a church parking lot during a Sunday morning worship service. I was very angry, and had to come to the conclusion that my anger was wrong. I needed to pray for those sinners. I give you credit for trying to contact them. Furthermore, as for the wording on the signs, you are obvously dealing with people with low moral judgement. Does anyone honestly think that these guys are gonna take a second look at a sign with flowery language? No. But look how many folks have caught sight of the signs and, obviously, remembered them. Your church is in my prayers as are these Sinners. “Sometimes we have to shake the tree to get a few Nuts.”

One last point for Joey… Vulgarity is in the eye of the beholder. Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan, but (as I recall) Jews considered them Vulgar. Words, to ponder.

In Christ,
Cliff

In response to Joey, I see both sides of the story. Yes, it’s not the typical message churches broadcast, and it certainly has brought up mixed feelings. But it’s also doing the job it was intended to do: get peoples’ attention. Kinetic Church isn’t your typical/traditional church, and some outsiders don’t look favorably on that. The heart of Kinetic, though, is pure and simple: to reach out to the imperfect, the unholy, the train wrecks, the hopeless, and everyone else that doesn’t fall into those categories.

It may surprise you to know that Paul used some vulgar language himself, and it’s recorded in the Bible. I won’t go into detail, but you can read for yourself if you’re interested. I didn’t really believe it myself at first either, but after much research, I’ve found it to be true.

I really hope you do decide to visit Kinetic sometime. We’d love to have you!

In Him,
Megan Lynae

I’ll try to respond reasonably…sometimes that is not so easy. :o)

First of all, I want to clarify that I’m not against the church “offending” anyone. Some people will be offended no matter what. I’m sure I offend people more than I’d like to imagine. I’m probably offending some right now. I don’t think the church has to be fluffy and pooffy (is pooffy a word?). I also think the church has the right to get in someones face from time to time…Jesus did it often. I’m also not suggesting that the signs should use flowery words. You can use words that are tough and to the point without the use of words that can be considered vulgar. Also, let me define what I mean by vulgar.

This verse says what I mean:

Col 3:8 But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

I consider using words that give connotations of a man’s testicles in this context as “filthy language”.

To illustrate, the sign could have read: “Stealing from God? … You must have some big Nu*ts!”

Is that a little more offensive? It’s basically saying the same thing but I think it would be even more offensive. If that is true, then where do you draw the line? If a modern dictionary considers the word as “usually vulgar” then I think it would be safe to say that most would think of it as vulgar and I think that would be because it fits into the category of “filthy language”. By the way, did I mention God said to rid yourselves of these things?

Another passage to consider…1 Cor 8:9-13

9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

Even if I am wrong and we have the freedom to do and say things said on the “Ballsy” sign, is it worth taking the chance of causing a brother to fall? I believe a new believer could get the wrong impression from this sign and possibly cause him to waiver.

Although the desired result of these signs are noteworthy, I don’t believe the ends justifies the means. I believe God’s word establishes a standard that we should all strive to go for. We all fail miserably at this but we still try.

One final note regarding the “Skubala” link. I have read up on this a little bit and I cannot find much support for this view. I believe Paul used some strong words but I do not believe they were filthy or vulgar in the context given. I tend to lean on the side of what the majority of scholars say about this and anything else is just a big pile of ….oops….almost said it didn’t I?

Love you guys!

Blessings!
Joey

Joey, Sometimes you just have to get your hands dirty to clean things up. Let it go! It is working that is what matters.
Pretty words fall on deaf ears… you know the ears that can no hear…… I for one want to be like Jesus… He said let them talk… Keep talking!!!!

This will be my last post. (And the church said…AMEN)

What bothers me the most is that not one response to any of my posts has been scripture based. Show me in the Word where I am wrong in my understanding and I will listen. I don’t think I have arrived by no stand point and I am teachable. But so far the response has been “If it works, then just leave it alone”. It is unfortunate “in my opinion” that a great part of the church today has this attitude. We don’t do things just because they appear to work; we do things because they line up with God’s Word. I ask that anyone look at the scripture I posted and tell me how they don’t apply to this situation.

Also, I have read a lot of posts that state that the Billboard signs are working. Please tell me what they have accomplished. If their goal was to get a lot of attention, then yes they are working. But I thought the goal was to reach this individual or individuals who stole your stuff. Am I wrong here too?

Maybe I really misunderstand what this is all about.

God Bless,
Joey

Joey,

See my post: Rules of Vulgarity, Part I