Comments on: Rules of Vulgarity, Part I http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212 the journey of a church planter in Charlotte, NC Mon, 30 Aug 2010 14:50:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Julie Gosney http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-695 Julie Gosney Tue, 29 Jul 2008 02:27:32 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-695 hey mr milam! i'm glad to see your church is the center of attention! i have seen the amazing things you can teach people, as a former student of yours. i am downright proud of your ballsiness! you have always inspired me to look at difficult situations with the point of view of the bible. and everyone makes mistakes. whether your billboard was a mistake or not (i vouch for the latter), i absolutely am floored by some of the condescending comments you have received! i can type quite positively that you thought long and hard about the message and reaction to your billboard. and i'm sure you prepared yourself for all this crap you're getting! i can't believe the words to you i have read from some of our brothers and sisters (the one sista in particular!) who have the love of christ in their hearts. but i believe the majority of comments you have received are from people who truly care about you and wish for your success. i wasn't at all surprised to see that you made this brash attempt for the area's attention. your church is sending a ripple of curiosity through your community... and i know that's exactly what you wanted when you started kinetic! be it vulgar, inappropriate, or offensive, your billboard has 1) given non-church-goers and non-christians a spark of interest (on their level), and 2) allowed some dare i say "old-fashioned" christians something to think about. you do your thing dave. we really miss your energetic passion at eastside. not that there isn't any now, of course. you were and still remain a positive, thought-provoking, philosophically prodding, depth-seeking influence in this brain of mine and many others. and i truly appreciate that. i hope you don't let your soft side give all the negativity any power over you. you are amazing at what you do. you are just a gutsy guy, and it seems that's what charlotte needs. love and prayer Julie hey mr milam! i’m glad to see your church is the center of attention! i have seen the amazing things you can teach people, as a former student of yours. i am downright proud of your ballsiness! you have always inspired me to look at difficult situations with the point of view of the bible. and everyone makes mistakes. whether your billboard was a mistake or not (i vouch for the latter), i absolutely am floored by some of the condescending comments you have received! i can type quite positively that you thought long and hard about the message and reaction to your billboard. and i’m sure you prepared yourself for all this crap you’re getting! i can’t believe the words to you i have read from some of our brothers and sisters (the one sista in particular!) who have the love of christ in their hearts. but i believe the majority of comments you have received are from people who truly care about you and wish for your success. i wasn’t at all surprised to see that you made this brash attempt for the area’s attention. your church is sending a ripple of curiosity through your community… and i know that’s exactly what you wanted when you started kinetic! be it vulgar, inappropriate, or offensive, your billboard has 1) given non-church-goers and non-christians a spark of interest (on their level), and 2) allowed some dare i say “old-fashioned” christians something to think about.

you do your thing dave. we really miss your energetic passion at eastside. not that there isn’t any now, of course. you were and still remain a positive, thought-provoking, philosophically prodding, depth-seeking influence in this brain of mine and many others. and i truly appreciate that.
i hope you don’t let your soft side give all the negativity any power over you. you are amazing at what you do. you are just a gutsy guy, and it seems that’s what charlotte needs.

love and prayer
Julie

]]> By: dan http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-619 dan Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:49:31 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-619 interesting "theft" campaign. i hope it has positive results for your church. i appreciate your study of the word AISCHROLOGIA. the primary question it raises in my mind is: why would paul want christians to change their patterns of behaviour? it's always been my firm belief that the "lists" we find in paul's epistles (the sin lists and the holiness lists) are absolutely applicable to our 21st century lives. yes, they did have an original context and understanding that context is important, but the theme overall is personal transformation and cultural secession. the first christians had to change their patterns of behaviour in order to break with the status quo. swearing, vulgarity... i agree, it is only words and it is cultural (which is why the word "schmuck" can be seen in some G- and PG-rated movies). we need to carefully consider the cost of breaking with the normative (ie. the crassness of our culture), versus using culturally-relevant language to reach those inside the culture. i think scripture directs us away from "the swears". it's an interesting debate and i'm not sure we'll ever resolve it. thanks for your time! interesting “theft” campaign. i hope it has positive results for your church.

i appreciate your study of the word AISCHROLOGIA. the primary question it raises in my mind is: why would paul want christians to change their patterns of behaviour? it’s always been my firm belief that the “lists” we find in paul’s epistles (the sin lists and the holiness lists) are absolutely applicable to our 21st century lives. yes, they did have an original context and understanding that context is important, but the theme overall is personal transformation and cultural secession. the first christians had to change their patterns of behaviour in order to break with the status quo. swearing, vulgarity… i agree, it is only words and it is cultural (which is why the word “schmuck” can be seen in some G- and PG-rated movies). we need to carefully consider the cost of breaking with the normative (ie. the crassness of our culture), versus using culturally-relevant language to reach those inside the culture. i think scripture directs us away from “the swears”.

it’s an interesting debate and i’m not sure we’ll ever resolve it. thanks for your time!

]]> By: Aaron Couch http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-549 Aaron Couch Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:49:16 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-549 It is always funny to me how people force a church to make choices about the kind of church it is going to be. They cannot just make a choice and worship the Lord, they have to get people to be just like them. I simply wish that Christians would exercise their complete right to disagree in a manor consistent with Romans 14 - what ever you believe about these things, keep between yourself and the Lord. Be firmly convinced in your own mind. If you cannot agree with what Kinetic did, don't go. There are lots of church options in the area. But you are not doing the kingdom any favors by disagreeing about it here. If it is really wrong, pray for Dave. If it is okay, pray for Dave. Trust that the Holy Spirit knows what to do with, for , and through Dave better than we do. As Paul said, entrust Dave daily to the Lord who judges righteously. Ballsy or not, Dave...I love you. And Jesus does too. It is always funny to me how people force a church to make choices about the kind of church it is going to be. They cannot just make a choice and worship the Lord, they have to get people to be just like them.

I simply wish that Christians would exercise their complete right to disagree in a manor consistent with Romans 14 – what ever you believe about these things, keep between yourself and the Lord. Be firmly convinced in your own mind.

If you cannot agree with what Kinetic did, don’t go. There are lots of church options in the area. But you are not doing the kingdom any favors by disagreeing about it here. If it is really wrong, pray for Dave. If it is okay, pray for Dave. Trust that the Holy Spirit knows what to do with, for , and through Dave better than we do. As Paul said, entrust Dave daily to the Lord who judges righteously.

Ballsy or not, Dave…I love you. And Jesus does too.

]]> By: Abby http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-508 Abby Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:46:44 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-508 I live in another country as a missionary and just discovered the whole church trailer theft through the internet. I was intrigued by the use of ballsy on the billboard. While I think, perhaps I would not have used the word, I am sure it got people's attention. I am just curious as to what attention it was. I didn't read the message of forgiveness in it at all. Before I watched any video about it, I thought arrogance and pride. Just the first gut instinct that I had. I am not judging at all. Please don't think that. God calls us all to do different things and we have to account to Him and not necessarily to people. Just was giving you my first impressions. I have to say sometimes I find that in American we are trying to make the church too "relevant" and we are missing the mark when it comes to the Gospel. I live and work in a Muslim culture and struggle with presenting the Gospel in a cultural and relevant way without compromising the Gospel and without compromising my own morals and integrity. Yes, the church needs to be relevant, but at the same time, the same Gospel message that has been leading people to the cross for over 2,000 years is still capable of doing that today without some of the relevance we like to insert into our churches. As Christians we are called to be in the world but not of the world. A line that I am struggling with and perhaps many other people are struggling with as well. That said, I thought the video about forgiveness was top-notch and I pray that the thief whoever he/she is will come to Christ and may your church be used as the catalyst for that. Based on your comments back to Cary and Joyce, I decided that your church would probably not be one that I would attend. Sometimes we should gracefully bow out instead of fighting back and creating a scene. I have learned that saying I am sorry even when I am not in the wrong goes a really really long way. Even if we are right, we don't have to always try to fight and prove that we are. That just causes more division and we have no idea the impact it can have on others who---although we may not like it---are watching and judging our every move. Hopefully this did not come across as judgmental but that it came across as someone just offering an opinion and some of her own life experience. Be blessed I live in another country as a missionary and just discovered the whole church trailer theft through the internet. I was intrigued by the use of ballsy on the billboard. While I think, perhaps I would not have used the word, I am sure it got people’s attention. I am just curious as to what attention it was. I didn’t read the message of forgiveness in it at all. Before I watched any video about it, I thought arrogance and pride. Just the first gut instinct that I had. I am not judging at all. Please don’t think that. God calls us all to do different things and we have to account to Him and not necessarily to people. Just was giving you my first impressions. I have to say sometimes I find that in American we are trying to make the church too “relevant” and we are missing the mark when it comes to the Gospel. I live and work in a Muslim culture and struggle with presenting the Gospel in a cultural and relevant way without compromising the Gospel and without compromising my own morals and integrity. Yes, the church needs to be relevant, but at the same time, the same Gospel message that has been leading people to the cross for over 2,000 years is still capable of doing that today without some of the relevance we like to insert into our churches. As Christians we are called to be in the world but not of the world. A line that I am struggling with and perhaps many other people are struggling with as well.

That said, I thought the video about forgiveness was top-notch and I pray that the thief whoever he/she is will come to Christ and may your church be used as the catalyst for that.

Based on your comments back to Cary and Joyce, I decided that your church would probably not be one that I would attend. Sometimes we should gracefully bow out instead of fighting back and creating a scene. I have learned that saying I am sorry even when I am not in the wrong goes a really really long way. Even if we are right, we don’t have to always try to fight and prove that we are. That just causes more division and we have no idea the impact it can have on others who—although we may not like it—are watching and judging our every move.

Hopefully this did not come across as judgmental but that it came across as someone just offering an opinion and some of her own life experience.

Be blessed

]]> By: Andy Field http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-507 Andy Field Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:54:12 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-507 I am not personally offended by the word "ballsy." It does mean courageous and bold, but it comes from an expression like this: "You just told the principal to go fly a kite? You must have huge balls." So it's a bit offensive in that it originated from the word "Balls" which means exactly what we think it means. Kind of like the word "bitchy" however, "ballsy" has crept into our common vernacular. I dug the ballsy billboard, by the way. I am not personally offended by the word “ballsy.” It does mean courageous and bold, but it comes from an expression like this: “You just told the principal to go fly a kite? You must have huge balls.” So it’s a bit offensive in that it originated from the word “Balls” which means exactly what we think it means. Kind of like the word “bitchy” however, “ballsy” has crept into our common vernacular. I dug the ballsy billboard, by the way.

]]> By: Jon Acuff http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-506 Jon Acuff Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:28:04 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-506 Dave - I just featured you guys on my site. I'm currently working on the book version and possibly a movie version of it, which is a little ridiculous. Hopefully you will get some traffic out of it. Thanks for doing what you do Jon Dave -
I just featured you guys on my site. I’m currently working on the book version and possibly a movie version of it, which is a little ridiculous.
Hopefully you will get some traffic out of it.
Thanks for doing what you do
Jon

]]> By: David Bennett http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-505 David Bennett Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:59:12 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-505 I think perhaps that you are missing the point. I don't think that your billboard was grossly offensive but I do think that it was in poor taste. I guess that you were going for shock value and you certainly got that. However, do you have to use this choice of wording? The Miriam Webster dictionary defines the word ballsy by saying "sometimes vulgar: aggressively bold". The Encarta Encyclopedia online lists the term as being "possibly offensive". Is it really appropriate or better yet necessary for a church to display to the millions who drive up and own our vast interstate systems a possibly "vulgar" term? What about the parent(s) who has had to answer the question from their young child, "What's ballsy?" Perhaps you have erred, I don't know. I just think that a better filter (such as is found in Phil. 4:8) would have been wiser. It is certainly harder for someone to think about "pure" things when the image of male genitalia comes up in one's mind while reading your billboard. That being said I went onto your church website and was incredibly impressed. I hope that God continues to bless you and I hope that this person who stole your trailer will come to know honest work and the saving power of our Lord and Savior (and will return your stuff!). God bless you. I think perhaps that you are missing the point. I don’t think that your billboard was grossly offensive but I do think that it was in poor taste. I guess that you were going for shock value and you certainly got that. However, do you have to use this choice of wording? The Miriam Webster dictionary defines the word ballsy by saying “sometimes vulgar: aggressively bold”. The Encarta Encyclopedia online lists the term as being “possibly offensive”. Is it really appropriate or better yet necessary for a church to display to the millions who drive up and own our vast interstate systems a possibly “vulgar” term? What about the parent(s) who has had to answer the question from their young child, “What’s ballsy?” Perhaps you have erred, I don’t know. I just think that a better filter (such as is found in Phil. 4:8) would have been wiser. It is certainly harder for someone to think about “pure” things when the image of male genitalia comes up in one’s mind while reading your billboard. That being said I went onto your church website and was incredibly impressed. I hope that God continues to bless you and I hope that this person who stole your trailer will come to know honest work and the saving power of our Lord and Savior (and will return your stuff!). God bless you.

]]> By: Joe McGrew http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-497 Joe McGrew Mon, 26 May 2008 11:58:40 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-497 HAVE I EVER TOLD ANYONE HOW MUCH I I LOVE "CHRISTIAN Clichés"? Well I do. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. I even took a class in college on them. How-not to evangelize using the latest Christian cliches 101 and the text book we used was... make no point at all using new and improved Christian Cliches. It was great stuff. And remember... He's got the whole world in his hands. HAVE I EVER TOLD ANYONE HOW MUCH I I LOVE “CHRISTIAN Clichés”?

Well I do. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. I even took a class in college on them.

How-not to evangelize using the latest Christian cliches 101 and the text book we used was…

make no point at all using new and improved Christian Cliches.

It was great stuff. And remember…

He’s got the whole world in his hands.

]]> By: Dave Milam http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-496 Dave Milam Sun, 25 May 2008 05:21:17 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-496 Cary & Joyce... Here is my response to your challenge on Isaiah 64:6 Try using your "trusty" Strong's Exhaustive concordance to look up the word "<a href="http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H5708" rel="nofollow">filthy</a>." I CHALLENGE YOU! (number H5708...just in case you can't find it). Hmmmmmm.... CLEARLY, the word is referring to a woman's period! It's pretty obvious that you have never studied this <em>entire</em> verse. At least I'm glad to know that there are a few "modern churches" who actually care enough about God's Word to interpret it correctly. While I'm on the subject, I hate when judgmental know-it-all Christians fire off their mouth without fully researching what they are talking about. As to the cost of our billboards, they were donated. (again, a little research prior to judgment would have been helpful) It breaks my heart that you are so quick to judge a church that you don't even know. And finally, for the record, the biggest distraction over the past month is dealing with mouthy, quick-to-judge Christians who have been out of the world so long that they have forgotten what it is like to truly be lost. I know my comments are rude and short, but hopefully incredibly pointed. Please forgive my harsh tone if it has offended you. (I just finished watching the UFC with the guys, so I'm a little wired right now) Cary & Joyce…

Here is my response to your challenge on Isaiah 64:6

Try using your “trusty” Strong’s Exhaustive concordance to look up the word “filthy.” I CHALLENGE YOU! (number H5708…just in case you can’t find it). Hmmmmmm…. CLEARLY, the word is referring to a woman’s period! It’s pretty obvious that you have never studied this entire verse. At least I’m glad to know that there are a few “modern churches” who actually care enough about God’s Word to interpret it correctly.

While I’m on the subject, I hate when judgmental know-it-all Christians fire off their mouth without fully researching what they are talking about.

As to the cost of our billboards, they were donated. (again, a little research prior to judgment would have been helpful) It breaks my heart that you are so quick to judge a church that you don’t even know.

And finally, for the record, the biggest distraction over the past month is dealing with mouthy, quick-to-judge Christians who have been out of the world so long that they have forgotten what it is like to truly be lost.

I know my comments are rude and short, but hopefully incredibly pointed. Please forgive my harsh tone if it has offended you. (I just finished watching the UFC with the guys, so I’m a little wired right now)

]]> By: Joyce J. http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212&cpage=1#comment-495 Joyce J. Sun, 25 May 2008 02:23:55 +0000 http://www.davemilam.com/?p=212#comment-495 Dave, I really have a problem with your interpretation of Isaiah 64 :6. If you were to look in your Strongs Exhaustive concordance ,your interpretation is way off base. It means tattered and spoiled cloths. Check it out, i challenge you. I don`t understand why people try to change God`s Word. And a "new Modern Church " well, God`s word has not changed in 2000 yrs. So why do you want to change it? And what about we as Christians being different in this world,as Gods Word says , " a peculiar " people. Well, I will not go on about this any further, I just think we all need to remember that we should not be like the world to reach the lost. And how about doing what Christ did for you on the cross..... HEY TRAILER THIEF< WE FORGIVE YOU AND WE ARE PRAYING FOR YOU. .... Christ did not forgive and then say you owe me,although we do, thats not how God works. What would Jesus do? looking in His word....He would`nt do the billboards the way you have,it is a poor example of Christ. How praying for God to get you another trailer? Oh ye of little Faith.............. You have spent so much money on billboards,you could have used that for the trailer...but that was a distraction from satan to take your focus off God and you fell for it ,hook ,line and sinker. God says he will take care of those people, you are still to minister and pray for them, and let God take care of the others that wrong us. I just hope you would see this from a compassionate God who loves sinners and so want them to know HIm and to have a personal relationship with Christ. Thank you for taking the time to read this. In His Service, Cary and Joyce Jackson Dave,
I really have a problem with your interpretation of Isaiah 64 :6. If you were to look in your Strongs Exhaustive concordance ,your interpretation is way off base. It means tattered and spoiled cloths. Check it out, i challenge you. I don`t understand why people try to change God`s Word. And a “new Modern Church ” well, God`s word has not changed in 2000 yrs. So why do you want to change it? And what about we as Christians being different in this world,as Gods Word says , ” a peculiar ” people. Well, I will not go on about this any further, I just think we all need to remember that we should not be like the world to reach the lost. And how about doing what Christ did for you on the cross….. HEY TRAILER THIEF< WE FORGIVE YOU AND WE ARE PRAYING FOR YOU. …. Christ did not forgive and then say you owe me,although we do, thats not how God works. What would Jesus do? looking in His word….He would`nt do the billboards the way you have,it is a poor example of Christ. How praying for God to get you another trailer? Oh ye of little Faith………….. You have spent so much money on billboards,you could have used that for the trailer…but that was a distraction from satan to take your focus off God and you fell for it ,hook ,line and sinker. God says he will take care of those people, you are still to minister and pray for them, and let God take care of the others that wrong us. I just hope you would see this from a compassionate God who loves sinners and so want them to know HIm and to have a personal relationship with Christ. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
In His Service,
Cary and Joyce Jackson

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